tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post9032555279463272954..comments2024-01-02T10:55:10.607-06:00Comments on Angry Astronomer: Good Idea/Bad IdeaJon Voiseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11550625188837528980noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-91356567865281453392011-05-10T18:24:13.749-05:002011-05-10T18:24:13.749-05:00The gospels of Matthew and Luke about the manger a...The gospels of Matthew and Luke about the manger and/or the Magi are fictions.<br> Matthew @80 CE; Luke @ 90 CE. These evangelical groups did not witness the birth of a Jesus--they created it to elevate the divinity of their savior god through a miraculous birth with an unknown date/time or season. <br> Those public and religious manger scene displays combine the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. Also, the "star", only in <br>Matthew "hovers" like a "Tinker Bell" in front of the Magi to lead them and stop over the room in the "inn" or "house" where Mary and Jesus are? <br> Since the Jewish Savior Messiah ("Christ" in Greek) was suppose to come from the Davidic lineage, Matthew and Luke embellished Mark to have Jesus born in Bethlehem, the City of David... <br> Ned, it is a fictonal story, really! <br> The Christian Church substituted the Dec 25th festivals of the solar god cults (like the birth of Mithra) for "Jesus'" birth date--i.e., the winter solstice day altered to the Gregorian (?) calendar.Chet Galactichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09180908559917846040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-59847889923317018122011-05-10T18:24:09.099-05:002011-05-10T18:24:09.099-05:00I don't think the wise men appear at all in Lu...I don't think the wise men appear at all in Luke, he has shepherds instead. In Matthew the star is indeed seen as an astrological indication that a great king will be born, and then later in the story a star appears that moves. It seems to me that there are two different ideas of the star here and they've been merged into the one story.<br><br>But in any case, you're right enough that there's no need to look for an astronomical explanation for this old tale!magisterianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-80011821103607453752011-05-10T18:24:08.286-05:002011-05-10T18:24:08.286-05:00I know sweet FA about astronomy, satellite mechani...I know sweet FA about astronomy, satellite mechanics etc., and I would tend to agree that based on all the other crap the star story is probably hyped exaggeration or lies; but for the sake of argument, how about a near-geo-stationary fly-by of a rock, close enough and the right velocity to trace a 'guiding' path, with or without a trail, and too close to be seen outside the Middle East. Is that possible? Could it hang around long enough - e.g. more than a day, not visible at night with no solar reflection, or visible with lunar reflection, visible in the day with solar reflection,...? If it was captured, could the path appear to be east-west, with eventual splash-down in the Atlantic or Pacific, or otherwise un-whitnessed?Ron Murphyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11039815765507965606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-7824757337320708652007-12-21T06:20:00.000-06:002007-12-21T06:20:00.000-06:00I know sweet FA about astronomy, satellite mechani...I know sweet FA about astronomy, satellite mechanics etc., and I would tend to agree that based on all the other crap the star story is probably hyped exaggeration or lies; but for the sake of argument, how about a near-geo-stationary fly-by of a rock, close enough and the right velocity to trace a 'guiding' path, with or without a trail, and too close to be seen outside the Middle East. Is that possible? Could it hang around long enough - e.g. more than a day, not visible at night with no solar reflection, or visible with lunar reflection, visible in the day with solar reflection,...? If it was captured, could the path appear to be east-west, with eventual splash-down in the Atlantic or Pacific, or otherwise un-whitnessed?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11039815765507965606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-39500927939906965172007-12-19T21:10:00.000-06:002007-12-19T21:10:00.000-06:00The gospels of Matthew and Luke about the manger a...The gospels of Matthew and Luke about the manger and/or the Magi are fictions.<BR/> Matthew @80 CE; Luke @ 90 CE. These evangelical groups did not witness the birth of a Jesus--they created it to elevate the divinity of their savior god through a miraculous birth with an unknown date/time or season. <BR/> Those public and religious manger scene displays combine the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. Also, the "star", only in <BR/>Matthew "hovers" like a "Tinker Bell" in front of the Magi to lead them and stop over the room in the "inn" or "house" where Mary and Jesus are? <BR/> Since the Jewish Savior Messiah ("Christ" in Greek) was suppose to come from the Davidic lineage, Matthew and Luke embellished Mark to have Jesus born in Bethlehem, the City of David... <BR/> Ned, it is a fictonal story, really! <BR/> The Christian Church substituted the Dec 25th festivals of the solar god cults (like the birth of Mithra) for "Jesus'" birth date--i.e., the winter solstice day altered to the Gregorian (?) calendar.Chet Galactichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09180908559917846040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-61755836076775945492007-12-19T13:40:00.000-06:002007-12-19T13:40:00.000-06:00I don't think the wise men appear at all in Luke, ...I don't think the wise men appear at all in Luke, he has shepherds instead. In Matthew the star is indeed seen as an astrological indication that a great king will be born, and then later in the story a star appears that moves. It seems to me that there are two different ideas of the star here and they've been merged into the one story.<BR/><BR/>But in any case, you're right enough that there's no need to look for an astronomical explanation for this old tale!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-17881701914447152262007-12-19T06:12:00.000-06:002007-12-19T06:12:00.000-06:00Ned - Sounds interesting but do you have links? Ma...Ned - Sounds interesting but do you have links? Mark, probably the earliest gospel, didn't even have a nativity story...Sounds to me like something that may have popped in afterwards.<BR/><BR/>I'm with you Jon on there being no astronomical explanation. I find the impulse to probe religious texts and myths with science weird. It's like taking a using a hammer to carve a turkey or a knitting needle to perform surgery. Wrong tool for the job.Dawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05895897568006441289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-25792208777863979012007-12-18T20:02:00.000-06:002007-12-18T20:02:00.000-06:00The Nativity story in Luke, which includes the thr...The Nativity story in Luke, which includes the three wise men chasing the star, is believed to be false. Matthew has what is believed to be the real version, the Magi go to King Herod telling him that the stars predict that the new king of the Jews will be born so he orders the execution of every child under two to protect himself. Newborn Jesus and his family fled to Egypt to escape, coming back after Herod died. This event is also confirmed by sources other than the Bible, which is why it's believed to be what really happend. The Census described in Luke actually took place under a different King 10 years after Herod died!<BR/><BR/>(Aside: This is an easy to find and obvious contradiction in the bible, point this out when a creationist starts using the bible as evidence for anything)<BR/><BR/>Spring 4-6BC is the most likely date, and apparantly there is mention of odd astronomical phenomenon around that time. BBC focus had a very interesting article on it about two years ago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-24181255692346206892007-12-18T15:26:00.000-06:002007-12-18T15:26:00.000-06:00I thought there was a theory that it might've been...I thought there was a theory that it might've been a planetary conjunction. No idea of the plausibility of that though.<BR/><BR/>And of course I don't believe a word of it either - but if you ARE going to have a Messiah born, a big light in the sky pointing the way to where he is might be a good way to make a suitably large impact.<BR/><BR/>Four or five extra-large supernovas becoming visible simultaneously would just about do it...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com