tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post114471901841087119..comments2024-01-02T10:55:10.607-06:00Comments on Angry Astronomer: Is ID really an "attack on science"?Jon Voiseyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11550625188837528980noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-62443468547867914782011-05-10T18:22:58.896-05:002011-05-10T18:22:58.896-05:00Well, after a rocky start, you're 2 for 2 now,...Well, after a rocky start, you're 2 for 2 now, Jon.<br><br>I can almost hear Galileo crying from the grave, "Don't recant, don't recant!"<br><br>You still seem to insist on equating Christians with fundamentalists, though, unless I'm misinterpreting what I'm reading. While I keep the fundmentalists of any religion at extreme arm's length, I don't think it's accurate to automatically equate the two.<br><br>I'm probably talking to the exact right person for this, because there's a question I've had in my mind for a long time (as you'll see in my response to your "Brother Jeb" blog, my background is not in physics or astronomy, but in chemistry...mostly I just like to combine two test tubes' contents and watch them blow up). :)<br><br>Now, the extreme Christians who say that the Bible is literal and we all descended from Noah's relatives...well, I don't know about all that. I can't say with 100% surety that they're wrong, but that's not where my logic leads me. What I am curious about though, is, where did all the matter in the universe originate? I read Hawking's "A Brief History of Time," which, if memory serves, stated that the answer to that question would be undefined, much like division by zero, because basically that's where time started and anything before that is outside the scope of the discussion. (Please feel free to correct any misconceptions...I'm going on memory...and don't go too far into the deep end; it's been a long time since I took quantum mechanics and Newtonian physics).<br><br>There's a middle ground in my head, which seems quite plausible to me at least....why not a Creator? A pronouncement of natural laws here, a few billion years there, a cleverly cast Magic Missile to catalyze the reaction, who knows? And, more relevantly, who COULD know? I mean, given the vast amount of information that is as yet undiscovered about our universe (and with a wink and a nod to my roots as an RPG'er...when I'm an old man, my "walking 5 miles in the snow to get to school" story will be "when I started playing D&D, we had to play on paper!"), how can the idea of a Supreme Being be absolutely discounted? And would it care if we mere humans called it God, or Allah, or Warty Green Toad?<br><br>Hey, it works for me, you know? It keeps me from strapping a bomb to my chest, or dancing with snakes on Sunday (which, by the way, is representative of only a very small percentage of either group, a fact you frequently seem to forget in your all-encompassing denouncements of faith), and it allows me to reconcile the observations I can make with my physical senses with the questions of faith that have so many people so perplexed.<br><br>In your insistence of the absolutes of science, it strikes me that you're only exhibiting a different facet of the extremism you so frequently decry. Strive for balance, young man. Ponder the significance of the yin and yang.The Lab Ratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-78230949279412431282008-06-01T15:32:00.000-05:002008-06-01T15:32:00.000-05:00You still seem to insist on equating Christians wi...<I>You still seem to insist on equating Christians with fundamentalists, though, unless I'm misinterpreting what I'm reading.</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps you could point me to phrases that are confusing you. I try to leave the "moderate" Christians out and refer only to "Creationists" or other terms that appropriately subdivide the larger population. I'm sure I've been sloppy at points, but overall, I do try to make the distinction.<BR/><BR/><I>where did all the matter in the universe originate?</I><BR/><BR/>Good question. The only <I>honest</I> answer is "we don't know." As you pointed out from Hawking, things break down when you get to the actual event that triggered the big bang. With our current understanding of physics, you're right, it is kind of like dividing by zero. Everything blows up and it doesn't work. But at the same time, we have to remember that our understanding of physics isn't <I>meant</I> to cover such high energy densities. We know that at some point, the fundamental forces of the universe branched off, but we cannot yet say how the last one of them (gravity) fits in with the other three. That's why we keep building bigger and bigger particle accelerators; In hopes that we can eventually reach the energy density that it converges at, and then we can see how things should have worked. In other words, we need a new theory: A Grand Unified Theory. This is currently one of the holy grails of physics.<BR/><BR/>But until we have that, we really can't honesty say we know what happened that early. However, just because we can't say, does not mean that miracles need be invoked. History has shown that invoking miracles is not a good solution to problem.<BR/><BR/><I>why not a Creator?</I><BR/><BR/>Why not a cheeseburger? It's equally as silly to me, and equally as unnecessary. Without evidence, there is no need to invoke additional causes. To do so violates the notion of parsimony. <BR/><BR/><I>how can the idea of a Supreme Being be absolutely discounted</I><BR/><BR/>I've said several times in this blog and elsewhere: It can't. However, it's certainly not necessary and as such, seems utterly superfluous.<BR/><BR/><I>And would it care if we mere humans called it God, or Allah, or Warty Green Toad?</I><BR/><BR/>I wouldn't presume to know.<BR/><BR/><I>Hey, it works for me, you know? </I><BR/><BR/>Then congratulations. However, saying something works does not mean it is necessarily the best solution.<BR/><BR/><I>when I started playing D&D, we had to play on paper!</I><BR/><BR/>Pfft. I still do.Jon Voiseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550625188837528980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-7488464836584414652008-06-01T12:37:00.000-05:002008-06-01T12:37:00.000-05:00Well, after a rocky start, you're 2 for 2 now, Jon...Well, after a rocky start, you're 2 for 2 now, Jon.<BR/><BR/>I can almost hear Galileo crying from the grave, "Don't recant, don't recant!"<BR/><BR/>You still seem to insist on equating Christians with fundamentalists, though, unless I'm misinterpreting what I'm reading. While I keep the fundmentalists of any religion at extreme arm's length, I don't think it's accurate to automatically equate the two.<BR/><BR/>I'm probably talking to the exact right person for this, because there's a question I've had in my mind for a long time (as you'll see in my response to your "Brother Jeb" blog, my background is not in physics or astronomy, but in chemistry...mostly I just like to combine two test tubes' contents and watch them blow up). :)<BR/><BR/>Now, the extreme Christians who say that the Bible is literal and we all descended from Noah's relatives...well, I don't know about all that. I can't say with 100% surety that they're wrong, but that's not where my logic leads me. What I am curious about though, is, where did all the matter in the universe originate? I read Hawking's "A Brief History of Time," which, if memory serves, stated that the answer to that question would be undefined, much like division by zero, because basically that's where time started and anything before that is outside the scope of the discussion. (Please feel free to correct any misconceptions...I'm going on memory...and don't go too far into the deep end; it's been a long time since I took quantum mechanics and Newtonian physics).<BR/><BR/>There's a middle ground in my head, which seems quite plausible to me at least....why not a Creator? A pronouncement of natural laws here, a few billion years there, a cleverly cast Magic Missile to catalyze the reaction, who knows? And, more relevantly, who COULD know? I mean, given the vast amount of information that is as yet undiscovered about our universe (and with a wink and a nod to my roots as an RPG'er...when I'm an old man, my "walking 5 miles in the snow to get to school" story will be "when I started playing D&D, we had to play on paper!"), how can the idea of a Supreme Being be absolutely discounted? And would it care if we mere humans called it God, or Allah, or Warty Green Toad?<BR/><BR/>Hey, it works for me, you know? It keeps me from strapping a bomb to my chest, or dancing with snakes on Sunday (which, by the way, is representative of only a very small percentage of either group, a fact you frequently seem to forget in your all-encompassing denouncements of faith), and it allows me to reconcile the observations I can make with my physical senses with the questions of faith that have so many people so perplexed.<BR/><BR/>In your insistence of the absolutes of science, it strikes me that you're only exhibiting a different facet of the extremism you so frequently decry. Strive for balance, young man. Ponder the significance of the yin and yang.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-1144852796712607272006-04-12T09:39:00.000-05:002006-04-12T09:39:00.000-05:00ID is trying to pop up in several other countries....ID is trying to pop up in several other countries. It has strong roots already in place in Australia, as well as seeds in many countries in Europe.<BR/><BR/>However, no country is as gung-ho about promoting it as the US. It's also interesting to note that the ability for ID to take root is directly proportional to how much of the population is Christian...Jon Voiseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11550625188837528980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-25327006.post-1144833639546324422006-04-12T04:20:00.000-05:002006-04-12T04:20:00.000-05:00Is it only happening here, or has Medievalism take...Is it only happening here, or has Medievalism taken root in other countries as well?Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07575451333006756797noreply@blogger.com